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AnsweredHot!Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear

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qtek
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2018/10/26 00:34:15 (permalink)
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Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear

My mower is an MTD 13AK608G062 (2000) w/single speed transmission. When I put the tractor in forward gear and drive, I am hearing an very loud noise and am really trying to figure out what it is and where it's coming from. I'm not sure if it's a belt, pulley, brakes, wheels, low/dirty oil or something with the transaxle. It happens in both Forward and Reverse, but it's very quiet to almost non-existent when in Reverse. When in Forward though, it is so loud that I can hear it over the engine and even over the mower deck when engaged. It gets progressively louder when I speed up. Sometimes when going down hill, the noise will get a bit quieter. I already tried messing with the gear shifter while driving to see if maybe pushing it forward, backward, up or down would quiet or even change the noise and it made no difference at all. The noise is exactly the same no matter the terrain.
 
I am just hoping one of you will recognize the sounds/symptoms or at least be able to point me in the right direction, so I don't go wasting a ton of time and money by fixing the wrong parts. Any ideas???


Here's a link to my video where you can hear it... youtu.be/LMumySawkQQ


You'll probably have to copy & paste this into your browser, since it won't let me post clickable links on this forum for some reason.

Thank you very much!
post edited by qtek - 2018/10/26 12:34:40
AVB
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 03:12:19 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby qtek 2018/10/26 18:30:01
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Since the link didn't make it. This going to be a guess from experience.
 
It is likely the bearing in the idler pulley at tensions the secondary belt of the transmission if the noise only happens while moving. Other times it can transmission whine from an over tight belt. A lot aftermarket v-belt are bad about sending out 5/8 x 41" belt in place of the MTD 41-1/2 v-belt but it is not a true 5/8" v-belt. These mowers seems to like a 5/8 x 42 in the aftermarket v-belts as the transmission due run quieter. Just got make sure the idler isn't hitting the frame at low speeds.
 
Transmission whine also happens when the input bevel gears are not meshing proper due input shaft bearing wear. This is not easy to get even for a shop with experience in setting of the heel and toe of this bevel gear mesh.
 
Also not many aftermarket v-belts don't even measure to the label specs they claim. Stens for an example is claiming that v-belt in spec if + or - 1/2". My most experience with them is that this isn't even what they are sending out. I have belt as much as inch short or longer than spec. Another aftermarket v-belt supplier had been sending me v-belt up to 2" short which cause me to quit them and throw out nearly a $1000 in v-belts back in June 2018.
 
Stens even sells a v-belt measuring tool which I have but they say it not even accurate in measuring v-belts. Strange though as when I measure OEM belts on it they are on the money spec wise.
qtek
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 09:57:53 (permalink)
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I don't know why the link didn't show up. Try this link to listen and see if it sounds like what you thought...


youtu.be/LMumySawkQQ


You'll probably have to copy & paste this into your browser, since it won't let me post clickable links on this forum for some reason.

Thank you again! 🙂
post edited by qtek - 2018/10/26 10:45:23
Roy
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 11:44:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby qtek 2018/10/26 14:49:15
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Check for play in the variable speed pulley, the bearings could be on their way out. You will likely need to remove the deck and traction drive belts.
AVB
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 13:35:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby qtek 2018/10/26 18:30:30
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For those is following this thread the problem in internal to transaxle due gear mesh noise. Can be cause using too short of a v-belt or internal transaxle gear mesh problems.
qtek
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 14:07:27 (permalink)
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Thank you very much AVB for the response and PM with more detailed information. Do you want me to post your response, so others that come searching with this same problem know exactly what to do as well?
qtek
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 15:24:41 (permalink)
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In case others were needing help with this same noise/problem, I received a very detailed diagnosis and helpful instructions in a response to a Private Message that I sent to AVB earlier today.  To further help others, I have pasted his message in quotes below...
 
 
"That noise is internal to transaxle. It caused by either using too short of belt or the wear of the needle bearings on the input shaft. Both cause the input shaft to tilt and this changes the heel and toe of the bevel gears creating this as the gear teeth try climb out their proper meshing.
 
First I would make sure that the 5/8 x 42 belt is actually 42" and not shorter. There are other setups that use different belts but 42" is specific to your model. Shorter belts will make these transaxles whine as shown in your YouTube video. If not the belt then it will takes pulling the transaxle and having someone to rebuild it, replacing worn parts and shimming as needed. The reason the noise is less in reverse there is less of a load on these gears. The gear ratios are the same it is just the forward gear and shims on the driveshaft has more wear due its increased use. This driveshaft is internal to the transaxle. Also note even after a rebuild some of this noise can still be present but at a much reduced level." - AVB
 
 
… So, from that information, I will be first checking and most likely replacing the v-belt as suggested, even if it is indeed 41.5-42", just because I'm sure it's worn anyway.  If the whining doesn't go away or at least quiet down a bit, then I will pull the transaxle this winter and split it open to clean out all of the grease, check all of the gears and bearings as suggested and replace what I notice is worn or damaged.  The only other thing I'm unsure of is what kind of grease and where to get it that I should pack back in there.  Then, should I seal it back up and if so, then is it a gasket or some liquid sealant that I should use or do I leave it unsealed to allow any excess grease to find it's way out of the transaxle housing?
 
Thank you again, especially to AVB & Roy for all of your help with diagnosing this issue!
AVB
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 15:42:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby qtek 2018/10/26 18:29:11
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I use 00 grease and the case halves are sealed together with Permatex Ultra Grey RTV.
qtek
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 17:39:22 (permalink)
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As far as the pulley bearings go... wouldn't it make more of a metal rattling sound than you hear in this video if the bearings were on their way out?
qtek
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 17:53:00 (permalink)
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With the grease, is there any particular brand you suggest or no? I saw one guy on YouTube putting in some 00 grease from Tractor Supply, but that stuff was very runny like liquid oil almost. I would certainly want the thickest and best grease lubricant, as I want the stuff with the best chance of quieting down as much average gear noise as possible. Also, I'm also a bit unsure of how much grease to put in there, especially if I'm going to seal it back up. I'd definitely be liberal with the grease, but I'd hate to put in too much and cause enough pressure to blow the seal and leak everything out. Starting a big project like that from scratch all over again would certainly be a nightmare.
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 17:57:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby qtek 2018/10/26 18:29:23
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They do make a different noise but from you audio on the video I know that is from the transaxle. I have been repairing these for 9 yrs and this is a common noise when the gears are not meshing as they should.
 
I even had one customer mower that this whine was so loud I could here it for a quarter mile from his place to my shop. It was annoying as heck with me knowing what was going on. He finally brought in the mower after he done ruin the whole gear box.
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2018/10/26 18:06:18 (permalink)
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Yes, this is most definitely very loud! With our without the blades engaged, my neighbors said they could absolutely hear that whine from very far away. Ha. So, I let them know that it was on the top of my priority list.
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2019/05/23 23:33:56 (permalink)
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I changed all 3 belts with new OEM belts and got the same loud noise. Then 2 days later I noticed it starting to make a clicking or grinding sound when I tried to drive uphill in Forward. I can drive flat, up or downhill in Reverse all day long.  What do you guys think?
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Re: Extremely LOUD noise w/Forward gear 2019/05/23 23:46:05 (permalink)
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Probably a problem with forward bevel gear and clutch collar on the drive shaft. Also need to sure everything is shimmed to specs. Don't forget to check the input shaft needle bearing. Too much play will cause gears to jump teeth.
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