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Helpful ReplyHot!Intek difficult to turn over

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hfjones
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2018/11/21 18:17:52 (permalink)
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Intek difficult to turn over

i have a 17 hp intek. a while back, i had to replace a blown head gasket. the repair seemed to be a success, but since then, the mower has become hard to turn over. i replaced the starter and the solenoid. i have tried jumping directly to the starter. i have removed the starter to assure the grounding surfaces of it and the block are clean. i am using a 12 volt car battery, and yet it's still very hard to turn over, even with a brand new battery (no, thank goodness, i bought that for one of my tractors, or i'd be really annoyed ;) .)
 
once it turns over the first time, assuming u can get it to do so, it seems to turn over and fire easily.
 
when i reassembled the engine with the new head gasket, could something i did account for this behavior? i sure hope that answer is yes. i'll gladly take my lumps if i know what to do to fix this.
 
thanks in advance :)
Roy
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/21 19:51:36 (permalink)
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Did you adjust the valves correctly? With the cover off and spark plug out, rotate the flywheel by hand until the ehaust valve starts to close as the intake opens. It is now at top dead center on the exhaust stroke.
Rotate the flywheel one complete revolution, it is now on compression, plus one quarter to ensure the valves are completely closed. Adjust them to  int .004" exh .006"
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/21 22:33:55 (permalink)
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thanks roy, i will have to check. a friend set the lash. iirc, he said he accidentally set them both less one thousandth, but i didn't remember the correct value being that small, so i may have this all confused.
 
would - .001 on each possibly cause this problem?
post edited by hfjones - 2018/11/21 22:35:29
Roy
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/21 22:44:46 (permalink)
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If the lash is too wide on the exhaust valve the automatic compression release won't work causing your problem. Too tight creates hard starting and poor power.
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/22 03:39:53 (permalink)
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Okay that should be a 310000 series engine. If so the ACR bump is on the intake valve. This would be the lower valve on a vertical engine. Check to see if it is bumping this valve at the top of the compression stroke. With the valve clearances at .001 or at the proper clearances it should be. If not then the ACR on the camshaft is broken. These 793880 camshaft are bad for the ACR to fail without warning. Also make sure you have both valve stems cap buttons in place.
 
This ACR failure is a known problem and is bad enough I keep a pair of them in stock most of the time. I just replace one Monday and I got another mower coming this weekend with another broken ACR. I had not even these 2 camshafts in stock 2 months and both are now gone.
 
As Roy said too little will cause problems too. Things like bent push rods as things expand.
 
These engines are bad to blow the head gaskets so if you or your friend torqued it to 220 in-lbs you will need to re-toque to 250 in-lbs. Briggs has never updated the spec chart. Something else that I keep several of in stock.
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/22 08:02:22 (permalink)
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I  also need to add that head bolt torquing must be done in three steps in order to prevent warping and a finally once over done to double check the final torque numbers.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/23 23:38:38 (permalink)
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thanks for the replies, roy and avp :)
 
i'm in the cold, so i may not tear back into it until the spring - but we've both read the suggestions, and i'll pull it back apart when the weather is kinder.
 
thanks for the heads up on the higher torque. should i be pulling the head bolts and restarting from scratch with a new gasket?
 
lol ya, i already had one of those caps sneak off on the original repair. happily it didn't get far :)
 
These engines are bad to blow the head gaskets

 
after searching online, i quickly came learn that i was not alone with my blown gasket  i'm no engineer, but come on - when i saw the replacement gasket, it didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why they like to blow. great job, someone. too bad i didn't do that searching before i chose this engine. my bad :(
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/23 23:42:18 (permalink)
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eek, sorry, AVB. i have new glasses. i've heard they're more effective when i actually wear them.
 
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/24 00:22:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kshansen 2019/07/22 07:30:34
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I got two pair myself plus a pair of readers that I need over my stronger pair. Just depends my eyes mood at any particular moment. It mainly because my eye is just guessing at what I need for reader version for the computer.
 
You kinda have too take the info I posted with a grain of salt too. When you consider the shear of engines that are out there that operate day to day without problems but all I can go by is what I do find when they come in with problems. I just got to make sure they don't come again in short order because I didn't do my job correctly by not checking these possible problems. Better safe then having a bad rep of poor workmanship for not spending a few extra minutes doing the non invasive tests. This what I get for working on them for 9 yrs now.
 
Now about the new head gasket provided you have not removed the head just touch up the torque to the new specs but once you pull the head you would need a new gasket due it being a metal core graphite version.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/24 14:22:19 (permalink)
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glad to hear it. i haven't touched the head, so i'll just pull the valve cover and see what i can find.
 
just to confirm, inch pounds = foot pounds times 12, correct? so i'm looking to go to ~ 21 foot pounds on the head? i don't have a torque wrench calibrated in inch pounds.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/24 14:26:33 (permalink)
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roy, what do u mean when u say hard starting? in my situation, it starts fine assuming i can get it to turn over at any decent speed.
 
for the record (should have posted this in the OP):
 
model: 31G777
type: 0125E1
 
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/24 16:03:01 (permalink)
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hfjones
glad to hear it. i haven't touched the head, so i'll just pull the valve cover and see what i can find.
 
just to confirm, inch pounds = foot pounds times 12, correct? so i'm looking to go to ~ 21 foot pounds on the head? i don't have a torque wrench calibrated in inch pounds.

Really should have for the two stages. HFT has currently them non sale for $10. But yes 250 is 20.8 ft-lbs. 21 ft-lbs is close enough considering the these tools are +-1 unit most times. The we do it in the three step is too lessen the chance of us warping the head.
 
On last it hard to get up to speed. You didn't ran this engine without oil did you? If so you need to rod to crankshaft bearing journals for aluminum transfer.
post edited by AVB - 2018/11/24 16:09:17
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/25 12:37:50 (permalink)
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noooo, i hope my days of running engines without oil are a several decades behind me. after the head gasket blew, but before i stopped using it pending repair, i would check the oil every time i went to use it since i knew it was consuming it greedily, and sometimes, when i had shut it off as well. filter has been changed every year at the start of season.
 
by HFT i'm guessing u mean harbor freight? there isn't one anywhere near me, but the friend who's been helping me has one nearby.
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2018/11/25 13:23:31 (permalink)
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Yes it is Harbor Freight. The closest one to me is a good 50 miles one way too. Sometimes it just better to order from them online and pay the shipping as it cost me more in fuel to go to the store.
 
I had to buy six of the torque wrenches 2 1/4", 2 3/8", and 2 1/2" square drives as I need both both right hand and left hand versions.
 
As for oil I just had to ask. I have one here that consuming nearly a quart of oil to a gallon of gas yet the owner insisted it didn't use oil.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2019/05/29 14:12:28 (permalink)
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i'm sorry to say that i set the lash again this past weekend, and it did not affect the problem at all. 
 
i guess my next area of focus should be the ACR. any suggestions along this line?
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2019/05/29 14:39:04 (permalink)
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If you didn't see the slight bump on the intake rocker then it is basically pull the engine, open it up and look at the camshaft ACR.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2019/07/20 13:08:22 (permalink)
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please forgive my long delay in replying, i have been working thru some health issues.
 
the news is great :) i once again have a working lawnmower, so apparently, the lash was the issue, as opposed to the ACR. i believe the previous time we redid the lash, we had intake and exhaust reversed in our minds.
 
thanks for all the help :)
 
follow-up questions: i was looking thru the manual for the engine, and noticed something i hadn't spotted before - a warning to not use the engine on a slope > 15 degrees. when it blew the head gasket, i was on the steepest (down)slope here. did this contribute to blowing the gasket? i have avoided that area ever since, but i have a nearby slope which is not quite as steep that i would like to resume mowing. would i be safer mowing any area whose slope concerns me by going uphill rather than downhill?
post edited by hfjones - 2019/07/20 13:11:19
AVB
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2019/07/21 09:35:16 (permalink)
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For reference a 15 degree slope is 12 inches [1ft] drop or raise every 44 inches. IF you must mow at a higher angle then the side with the oil filter should be lower as the oil pump is on that side of the engine but there will still oiling problems. Lack of oiling is the reason for failure of the connecting rod at the crankshaft journal as once the this connection gets so hot that aluminum transfer occurs it only gets worse even when with proper oiling is restored.
 
It can lead to overheating of the cylinder but air cooling is more likely the culprit. Also the design of this particular head also leads to the failure when they are under torqued which is why Briggs increase the torque spec to help relieve this this problem. This has seems to resolve this problem as I do abuse my 21hp by getting so hot that water dropped on it boils. Although I try not to get this hot as I don't let my grass so tall normally. However lately the grass has gotten out of control and is waist high on the backside, just too much rain and heat.
hfjones
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Re: Intek difficult to turn over 2019/07/26 23:05:08 (permalink)
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thanks for that, AVB - i'll have to do some measuring. u don't see an advantage to either going uphill or down? i'll be sure to note the sideways tilt.
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