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2023/06/08 17:33:05

[email protected]

Kawasaki FH580V timing issue

This engine is from a John Deere GT235. It is a Kawasaki FH580V, 2-cyl, 4stroke. I picked it up from a yard sale. When I got it, it was running on 1 cylinder. I checked compression and one of the cylinders was at 0 psi. I removed the engine, split the case and found that the ring gaps had aligned. I reoriented the rings according to the tech manual. Reinstalled the pistons, crank and camshafts. I aligned the crank and cam shafts using the timing mars. Reinstalled everything, but when I go to start the engine I see gas spewing out of the carb. I have taken this engine apart 3 times to insure the timing marks are ok and they are. Here are my questions:
1. which cylinder is #1 looking down at the flywheel?
2. When aligning the the crank and cam shafts is cyl #1 completely up in the cylinder or down?

Thanks

21 comments Leave a comment

SRTsFZ6

[email protected]

1. which cylinder is #1 looking down at the flywheel?
2. When aligning the the crank and cam shafts is cyl #1 completely up in the cylinder or down?

I'm not sure of which cylinder is #1 but looking down, it's often at say 6:00 vs the cylinder at 4:00(if that makes sense).

Setting up timing, the piston, for #1, is at Top Dead Center, NEVER at the bottom.

2023/06/08 17:53:54

SRTsFZ6

Just found this (on-line):

Cylinder #1 is Closest to the Flywheel on Fuel Pump Side

2023/06/08 17:58:34

[email protected]

Thank you for your replies. So I identified cyl#1 the same as SRTsFz6 and the cylinder was at TDC when I aligned the timing marks on the cam and crank shafts. It did start for about 20m seconds the quit. I checked compression, spark and so I replace the carb just to make sure everything was good. It still will not start. Any suggestions?

2023/06/09 08:29:17

SRTsFZ6

Will it continue to run spraying some starting/carb cleaner down the throttle bore?.

Do you have a fuel pump on the machine?

If yes to both, pull the fuel line to the carb, crank over the machine with the fuel line going into a container to catch it. You should see fuel pumping out into it (Just cranking , not just running).

Also, loosen the gas cap (should it be clogged) and see if there's any difference.

2023/06/09 08:48:05

[email protected]

It has fuel. the fuel pump is working. When I try to start the engine I can see fuel coming back out of the carb. I sprayed starter fluid into the carb (actually right into the intake manifold) and when I turn over the engine smoke comes back out of the carb and it won't start even with starter fluid. I adjusted the valves at TDC when the flywheel magnets are aligned to the proper leg of the coil for cyl#1 and cyl#2. I even pulled the flywheel to make sure the key wasn't sheered.
I keep going back to timing, but mechanically everything is according the tech manual. Any thing else? Thanks

2023/06/10 08:51:42

SRTsFZ6

Pull the valve covers And engine cover and then check the timing.

You want to check that the pistons at TDC, intake cam just opened and closed (compression stroke) and ignition coil lines up with the flywheel magnet

Sounds like one of those is not in sync.. (intake cam OPEN when the piston is coming up, -pushing air OUT OF THE intake/manifold..

.
.

2023/06/10 15:30:01

[email protected]

rechecked the timing. I hate to say this but the engine from a mechanical point of view is very difficult to screw up. The camshaft and crankshaft timing marks can only be aligned when cyl #1 is at TDC. I tried to have the timing marks line up with Cyl#2 at TDC and it's impossible to align the marks. Reassembled and verified valve clearance on both cylinders is at TDC on the compression stroke and the flywheel lines up with the coil leg for each cylinder.
Engine will still not start. Fuel is being blown back out the carb. I removed the spark plugs and manually cycled the engine and went thru the exhaust stroke, the intake stroke, the compression stroke while watching the position of the cylinder. I still get the intake valve open when the cylinder is coming up. This is not right, but mechanically the timing marks are aligned with cyl#1 at TDC. Thus my question:
Can the lobes of the camshaft rotate? I know some camshafts have plastic lobes that are pressed on. Does Kawasaki press on the lobes or are they machined?

2023/08/10 14:36:03

SRTsFZ6

Does the stock cam have and plastic parts attached to it?

It does sound as if the lobe(s) are in-correct.

You may want to look up a new cam and compare to yours.. .

.

2023/08/11 08:00:41

[email protected]

I have a Kawasaki FS541 engine, which is basically the same assembly as the FH580, so I checked the cylinder position relative to the valve position. The 541 engine followed what you would expect for a 4-stroke engine, however the 580 engine is nowhere near what it should be. Below is a comparison of both engines: I think the camshaft gear has moved relative to the lobes. Will buy a new camshaft and compare lobes to timing mark. Thanks for your help.

EngineFunctionInlet Valve PositionExhaust Valve PositionCylinder PositionKawasaki FS541Compression closedclosedTDC Power StrokeclosedclosedBottom Exhaust StrokeclosedopeningMoving up Intake StrokeopeningclosedMoving down Intake StrokeclosedclosedBottom

Kawasaki FH580CompressionclosedclosedTDC ?closedopeningMoving down ?closedclosingbottom ?openingclosedmoving up ?open closedTDC ?closingclosedMoving down ?closedclosedbottom

2023/08/11 14:41:40

[email protected]

Tried to paste an excel spreadsheet into the last post. Did not work. I'll try again to post.

Engine                    Function    Inlet Valve Position    Exhaust Valve Position    Cylinder Position
Kawasaki FS541    Compression     closed                           closed                          TDC
                          Power Stroke    closed                           closed                        Bottom
                          Exhaust Stroke closed       opening                    Moving up
      Intake Stroke    opening                         closed       Moving down
      Intake Stroke    closed                            closed                        Bottom

Kawasaki FH580    Compression         closed        closed                           TDC
                                   ?                 closed                          opening                 Moving down
                                   ?       closed                          closing                        bottom
   ?                 opening                        closed                      moving up
   ?                  open                            closed       TDC
       ?                 closing       closed Moving down
   ?                  closed    closed       bottom

2023/08/11 14:46:18

pastvn1

Did you find a solution for this problem? I’m having the same issue with a FX691.

2023/08/21 16:31:32

[email protected]

No I have not.
I ordered a new camshaft. When I compared it to the existing camshaft it is exactly the same as a new one.

If I could send a pic I could show the alignment of the crank and cam shafts.

The only other part that could be misaligned is the mating gear to the camshaft located on the crankshaft. This gear looks like it is pressed on. So in my simple mind it is possible for this gear to shift.

I keep going back to when I first rebuilt the engine. It started and ran for about 45-60 seconds then it quit. That's when I noticed the gas coming out of the carb. That's when i realized the mechanical timing was not correct.

I am going to order a new crankshaft and compare to existing one.

2023/08/25 15:03:29

[email protected]

PASTVN1 there is a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNsDVJbN-c) that shows that the timing mark on the crankshaft for a FR691V engine. If you look at 29:30 on the video the timing mark for the crankshaft is 180 degrees from the keyway. Is your engine the same? I noticed on my engine that the timing mark is not 180 from the keyway. Just curious if this is the same on these engines.

2023/08/25 15:38:23

SRTsFZ6

That secondary gear on the crank should come off easily.

I just replaced that gear on a Briggs PW in which the alignment pin sheared off.
The new gear was now steel, not plastic...

.

2023/08/26 07:53:10

[email protected]

Finally found a solution to this issue. The crankshaft gear is not keyed or pinned. The gear rotated by 5 teeth in reference to where the timing mark should be. The timing mark on the gear is 180 degrees opposite of the key way on the shaft. The left crankshaft is the correct location of the timing mark.

2023/09/17 14:04:14

[email protected]

After installing the new crankshaft, the engine started immediately and ran for about 30-45 seconds and then it quit. I checked compression and cyl #2 had only 30psi. I pulled the engine and again the crankshaft gear has rotated out of position from the keyway. Something is binding causing the gear to slip.

Any suggestions? piston/rings? Help would be appreciated.

2023/09/19 12:43:30

SRTsFZ6

Is that gear just pressed on W/O any keyway/pins?

.

2023/09/19 18:42:02

[email protected]

Yes

2023/09/20 05:18:58

[email protected]

So what can cause the gear to slip? The cam shaft or its components (piston rings tappets valves?) are binding. Not sure. Any words of wisdom?

2023/09/20 15:44:50

SRTsFZ6

Is that gear just pushed on, slips on? Any friction?

2023/09/20 16:08:47

SRTsFZ6

I had a machine (forgot what it was), with a gear that was supposed to be a tight fit on the crank.
It wasn't even close to being tight.

With that said, I cleaned all surfaces and used RED Loctite on both surfaces and let dry overnight.
It held (surprisingly), so you may try that...

2023/09/20 16:17:09

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Kawasaki FH580V timing issue

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