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2023/09/08 14:49:52
cyryl

Kohler xt675-2047 NO MARK crankshaft

Hi everyone, I have a problem because when I was removing the oil pan, the camshaft in the Kohler xt675-2047 engine from the Viking lawn mower popped out. The worst thing about it all is that there is no mark on the gear that is mounted on the crankshaft (it is fixed in place, it is not removable) :/, there is a mark on the camshaft gear. It looks like in this video (only it is a slightly larger model but visually everything is the same), in this link there is a service manual but I only found a sentence that the marks must match, nothing more. Is anyone able to help me how to put it back together now without that mark on the crankshaft?
 
 
13 comments Leave a comment
Conrad Sigona
I can't imagine it's true that there's no mark, only perhaps that you indeed see it, but expect it to look differently, and so miss it. It will look like a little dimple punched into the metal. If your camshaft is plastic and has a little raised and painted mark, and you expect something similar on the crankshaft, you won't find it. Look for the dimple.
 
I don't see the video you refer to attached to your post. If you still can't find the mark on the crankshaft, take a picture (a still picture) of the crankshaft with the camera aimed at the face of the gear. Maybe even include the camshaft in the photo with both shafts mounted in the motor side-by-side.
2023/09/08 15:58:15
Conrad Sigona
Matthew196 on
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/kohler-small-engine-xt6-75-cam-and-crank-timing.44824/
 
suggests that there's a washer over the crankshaft gear that's hiding the mark. Maybe you didn't take off the washer?
 
2023/09/08 16:13:13
SRTsFZ6
From another website:
I will tell you on the XT675-2011 engines there is a washer that is on the crankshaft COVERING UP the timing mark!! SO BEWARE of that!! I'm betting this will resolve your issues finding the timing mark! As this fooled us as well till we looked into it more! Yes make sure there is no washer on top of the crankshaft as this will fool you as it covers up the timing mark!
 
 
2023/09/08 16:24:28
cyryl
I removed the washer and unfortunately the gear is quite worn in the place where the washer was sliding. I don't see a punched hole anywhere as a mark on the gear. I'm going to the garage to keep fighting. In case anything happens, I'll post some pictures. Maybe someone will notice something.
2023/09/09 05:30:57
cyryl
Cant upload here:/
2023/09/09 06:09:35
cyryl
Cant upload here:/

ibb.co/3rRxf7z
ibb.co/9T7rQLc
ibb.co/kQJrNhm
ibb.co/Mhx3vks
ibb.co/8MdLv3b
ibb.co/sjcq5vy
ibb.co/vsLpKz5
ibb.co/pP6xTdd
ibb.co/X5w6wQR
2023/09/09 06:09:39
Conrad Sigona
Yeah, I have to agree with you. I see some marks, but probably just reflections. So here's what I suggest:
 
1. Turn the crankshaft so the piston is at the top (TDC).
2. Look at the lobes on the camshaft and position the camshaft so that the lobes are at a low point when facing the lifters. Both lobes will point away from the lifters, but not directly away. If you imagine the lifters as being at 12 o'clock, the lobes will be one at 4 and the other at 8. I'm imagining the camshaft as transparent so you could easily look down at the lobes. Since it isn't, you'll have to look around the gear. There's probably not much room, so do the best you can. Consider marking the camshaft gear to sort of outline where the lobes would be if the gear were transparent.
3. At this point, you're probably properly timed, or close to it. Convince yourself by turning the crankshaft in the direction that it normally rotates (refer to the orientation of the pull cord, if necessary, to determine rotation). As you turn, the exhaust lobe will open the exhaust valve. Turn some more. The exhaust valve will shut and the intake valve will open. Turn some more. The intake valve will shut, and soon you'll be back to where you originally positioned it.
4. Check again. At TDC, the lobes should be at 4 and 8. At the bottom of the stroke, they'll be at 1 and 5. At the top of the next stroke, they'll be at 10 and 2. And at the bottom, at 7 and 11.
5. Now that you're used to examining the lobes and their relation to the lifters, look again to see whether you positioned the camshaft well enough. Maybe you can adjust it by one tooth one way or the other, and have the lobes closer to the 4 and 8 position I mentioned.
 
If you're not sure what I'm talking about, let me know and I'll try to include some drawings.
2023/09/09 11:47:40
cyryl
csigona
Yeah, I have to agree with you. I see some marks, but probably just reflections. So here's what I suggest:
 
1. Turn the crankshaft so the piston is at the top (TDC).
2. Look at the lobes on the camshaft and position the camshaft so that the lobes are at a low point when facing the lifters. Both lobes will point away from the lifters, but not directly away. If you imagine the lifters as being at 12 o'clock, the lobes will be one at 4 and the other at 8. I'm imagining the camshaft as transparent so you could easily look down at the lobes. Since it isn't, you'll have to look around the gear. There's probably not much room, so do the best you can. Consider marking the camshaft gear to sort of outline where the lobes would be if the gear were transparent.
3. At this point, you're probably properly timed, or close to it. Convince yourself by turning the crankshaft in the direction that it normally rotates (refer to the orientation of the pull cord, if necessary, to determine rotation). As you turn, the exhaust lobe will open the exhaust valve. Turn some more. The exhaust valve will shut and the intake valve will open. Turn some more. The intake valve will shut, and soon you'll be back to where you originally positioned it.
4. Check again. At TDC, the lobes should be at 4 and 8. At the bottom of the stroke, they'll be at 1 and 5. At the top of the next stroke, they'll be at 10 and 2. And at the bottom, at 7 and 11.
5. Now that you're used to examining the lobes and their relation to the lifters, look again to see whether you positioned the camshaft well enough. Maybe you can adjust it by one tooth one way or the other, and have the lobes closer to the 4 and 8 position I mentioned.
 
If you're not sure what I'm talking about, let me know and I'll try to include some drawings.



I have already assembled this unfortunate lawnmower. I set the shaft at the very top, inserted the camshaft so that it would immediately open the intake valve, and watched the valves move relative to the shaft. I am practically certain that I set it up correctly, I screwed everything together, filled in new oil, and turned the shaft a little (with a screwdriver) on the first shot without the spark plug connected. Later, I connected the spark plug and started the lawnmower with a screwdriver without any problems. It ran for a while (about a minute), so I put the top together (plastics and pull-start). To my surprise, it doesn't want to start at all on the pull-start, but when I disassembled the top again and tried with a screwdriver, it worked without any problems. Could it be that I hit a tooth or two?
2023/09/09 11:58:09
Conrad Sigona
I don't understand what you mean by starting it with a screwdriver. You don't mean using a screwdriver across the terminals on an electric starter, do you?
2023/09/09 12:22:47
cyryl
I'm sorry, I used a translator and it translated incorrectly. I meant an electric drill :) I used it to turn the shaft instead of the pull cord.

edit:

what could be the reason if when turning the shaft with an electric drill, the lawnmower starts (after one rotation), but when trying with a pull cord, it doesn't want to start?
2023/09/09 12:31:32
Conrad Sigona
Well, the only real difference is the speed, right? Does the drill have a variable speed? Try a slower speed and see if it again fails to start.
 
But now the question becomes why would we need to spin the motor faster to get it to start. There are a few possibilities, namely,
a) low compression, that is, bad rings, damaged cylinder, or valves not seating properly (see also timing below);
b) timing being off a little so that the valves are opening too soon, resulting in poor compression;
c) weak spark; or
d) poor fuel feed.
 
Can you get it to start with starter fluid using the starter rope?
When it runs, does it smoke (burn oil)?
When it runs, does the exhaust smell of unburned fuel?
Do you see any liquid forming (perhaps smoking) at the muffler?
Does it run well under load?
Considering that you were fiddling with the timing, that's the first trail I would follow.
 
Permit me to ask why you opened the engine in the first place.
 
2023/09/09 13:58:53
cyryl
The lawnmower was burning oil, smoking blue like crazy. The old piston rings had about 2-4 mm of gaps. I'm surprised it started at all! 😄

During the piston ring replacement, I also disassembled the valves to clean the carbon buildup that occurred during usage. I cleaned everything thoroughly and reassembled it. (When valves are removed, do they need to be re-seated?) I set the valve clearances to 0.15 mm on the exhaust valve and 0.1 mm on the intake valve. I suspect I may have misaligned a tooth or two because when I reassembled it, I came across this video When adjusting the valves, I thought that at the end of the exhaust stroke, two valves should not be slightly open, and I tried to correct this. So, it seems to me that an electric drill might compensate for lower compression by rotating the crankshaft faster.
2023/09/10 03:02:17
Conrad Sigona
You didn't mention the cylinder. Yes, you replaced the rings, but did you take measurements of the cylinder to see if it needs to be rebored? Rings are harder than the cylinder surface, so a large ring gap typically means that the cylinder is worn more than that the rings are worn. And when the cylinder wears, it does not wear evenly. One axis, the one perpendicular to the crankshaft, wears more than the other, resulting in an oval opening when viewed from above. Old rings conform to this cylinder wear, so you have oval rings running in an oval cylinder. When you replace the rings without boring the cylinder, you'll have round rings running in an oval cylinder, meaning you now have less compression than before you started! So what to do? You can take things apart again, measure the cylinder, bore it straight, use oversize rings, and congratulate yourself for doing the job right. You can also leave it alone, and run the machine praying that the new rings eventually conform to the oval cylinder. Since I suspect your problem at this point is cam timing, leaving the rings and cylinder as they are might not be so tragic.
 
You asked whether you need to reseat the valves. If the valves are good, no burned edges, and the seats are good, and you didn't mess up the mating surfaces when you cleaned them, you won't have to reseat them. But, considering the wear on the engine, and the reason you started this project, it wouldn't hurt to lap them and start with a nice surface. It's easy enough and can be done with inexpensive tools. For a perfect job, you would also check how the valve guides are holding up, that is, that the valves are not wiggling in the holes.
 
You mentioned that you tried to avoid the spot where, at the top of the exhaust stroke, both valves are slightly open. I'm not looking at your camshaft in front of me, so I can only guess, but I imagine that the lobes overlap a little. That is, when you hold the shaft in front of you so that the two lobes are up, you'll see that they are not positioned so that the valves are fully closed. They are not flat across, but bulge up a little. (Let me know if you need me to draw this for you.) This is normal. The exhaust valve typically starts to open just before the piston reaches bottom, and is still open a little when the piston reaches top. This, of course, is a big issue when dealing with race cars, where one tunes the cam lobes to achieve the wanted performance. On the lawn mower engine, the manufacturer tunes for one speed, 3600 rpm. He doesn't worry about low end torque, or acceleration. Nowadays he probably cares more about his emission rating than anything else.
 
2023/09/10 08:08:55

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