Join us now!

Username
Password
Verification
	Stay logged in

- OR -

Forgot Your Password? Forgot your Username? Haven't received registration validation E-mail?

User Control Panel Log out

Community Stats

1 day 7 days 30 days Max. View More

Birthdays

2024/08/27 15:27:50

mboessen

Simpson CM61083-S Pressure Washer Fuel System

New guy here. I'm 71 and have a ton of experience with small engines. A couple of years ago I bought a Simpson CM61083-S pressure washer, I believe on Amazon. The reviews were very good, and the price/performance were very attractive relative to other offerings. I have seen a post online that the engine, Simpson model CRX208cc, is copied from a Honda engine, and it does look for all the world like a Honda engine. The first time I used it, I was totally amazed. After I finished, as I always do, I turned off the fuel valve, let it run until the carb was empty, and siphoned the remaining gas from the tank. The next time I used it was about 6 months later. Filled it with fresh gas, turned on the fuel valve and pulled the cord about 50 times. Nada. Pulled the plug and checked for spark. Next I filled a syringe with gas and squirted about 5 CC in the intake. Sputtered for a few seconds. Did it again, and after it started, just kept squirting gas until it would run on its own. The engine was loping (rpm running up and down) a lot, like you would expect with stale gas. Not the case. I washed the garden tractor with it running like that for 10 minutes or so. It maybe got a trifle better, but was never really happy and won't idle. I'm thinking adjust the carb for probably a different blend of gas/ethanol, but can't find any adjustments.

So, I decided to pull the carb and clean it just for kicks, knowing it wouldn't fix anything. It was spotless and beautiful inside. Looked like new. Reinstalled it and it still runs the same. I worked on a Craftsman pressure washer a while back for my brother-in-law that had the same symptoms. It, too, had the "not" adjustable carb. I bought a new carb online for his and after installing it, it ran fine.

It has been sitting around for over a year, and today I decided to try to do something with it again. I see what I think is a correct carb on ebay, but this doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand what happened to a brand new carb after being used just one time, drained and properly taken care of.

Can anyone hold forth on this problem? It doesn't make sense to chuck a brand new carb that should be working fine.

I can't get the site to let me upload pictures, but, trust me, the carb looks pristine inside.

Best

Mike

23 comments Leave a comment

SRTsFZ6

There's one jet you likely missed... And it's SMALL..

Under the throttle stop screw is a black plastic thing. Remove the screw and gently pry
out the plastic Jet (there may be another black plastic "spacer" above it -Save it for re-assembly)

Now with the last part out, you'll see a small brass insert with a hole..

That clog's up very easily. I use a small vise grip, clamping a wire brush STRAND.
(Yes, it's that's small that my jet cleaning tool won't fit.)

Carb cleaner and gentle in and out with the wire. That jet must be clear up into the hole.
carb cleaner when clean, will spray out the sides. Do NOT try to punch ALL THE WAY THRU..

As a a side, should you have an engine surging, drilling open that jet, every so slightly with a jet drill bit, will richen the mix and get rid of the surge. This is for engines with NO OTHER issues, just super lean from the factory...

.

2024/08/27 17:01:24

mboessen

Hi, Scott:

Well, you were spot on. Apparently you have seen this critter. I didn't realize what that was. That gives me a red face in 2 ways. Back when I ran it the second time (when it was surging) as usual, I turned off the fuel and let it run until it quit. I left the gas in, thinking I'd get back to it, and it has sat for nearly a year. I'm guessing that fuel shut off must let a little gas trickle through, as there was a little gunk in the carb this time. Pulled both jets and gave it a good soak in lacquer thinner. Sprayed carb cleaner through all the passages, cleaned the main jet thoroughly in carb cleaner, making sure all the little holes were clear, and cleaned that little mystery one you mentioned the same way. Blew 70 PSI compressed air through every passage I could find, and the jets. Have it back together now, but didn't arrive at happy land.

Filled it with fresh gas, set the choke and it hit on the first pull. Ran for a second and died. Wouldn't hit again, choke or not no matter how much I pulled on it. Pulled the drain plug from the carb and it is getting plenty of gas through the float valve. Put that back and pulled it again. Ran for a second. Waited 5 minutes and it ran for a second. After about a half hour of this routine, I found out that if I start it at about 1/2 throttle, it will run, but surges, sputters and misses out a lot. Try to give it a little more throttle, no matter how gradually, and it dies instantly, like you turned it off. Feels like the original problem, only worse. This is what I expect when working on a carb with ADJUSTMENTS.....and set too lean. Unfortunately, no adjustments.

Starting to feel the price of a new carb slipping away. I can afford it, but I can't buy one every time I want to use it. Hate to impose further on your kindness, but do you have any more suggestions? You seem to be familiar with this beast.

Best

Mike

2024/08/27 20:01:25

SRTsFZ6

Besides pulling the main jet, did you remove and clean the emulsion tube?

It's what just sticks up into the main venturi. That also has very, very small holes that
must be clear. You an gently push down from inside the venturi, then tap the carb till it falls out..

Lastly, I know you have fuel at the carb. Turn off (or clamp off) the fuel line and remove from the carb.
Put a catch container under the hose, open the valve and make sure you have a good flow of fuel, NOT just a trickle...

.

2024/08/28 08:13:42

SRTsFZ6

Looking at a pic on-line a couple things. Seems you have a fuel filter as part of the on/off fuel valve.
Remove that cup. There's usually a screen inside there. Make sure that clean and again fuel flows thru it when turned on..

Second, just for S & Gs, that machine has a low oil cut off switch. It's not un-common for it to fail.
On the front of the engine is a sensor with one wire that plugs into the harness. Simply un-plug it to
disable it... It's supposed to kill spark but when failing it often PARTIALLY KILLS SPARK. It can have you chasing your tail....

..

2024/08/28 08:21:16

mboessen

Hi, Scott:
Concerning fuel, when I pull the drain plug on the carb, gas flows out of there plenty fast. I'm very sure there is plenty of fuel flow to the carb. "Emulsion Tube?" I've never heard that term. I have been mistakenly calling that the "main jet" all my life. I did remove that and clean it very carefully.

Again, I really do have a lot of experience on small engines. It is the "not adjustable" thing that is killing me. The engine acts like it is set too lean and is starving for fuel. If it were adjustable, I would be turning the high jet screw open. Is that little orifice you had me check earlier what regulates this? It is marked 40V, I presume that means ".04 mm"? What is that supposed to be called? Apparently I need a little help with modern terminology.

I unhooked the oil sensor. No help. I put a couple tablespoons of Seafoam carb cleaner in the gas and ran it for about 10 minutes with the pressure hose disconnected to keep water going through the pump. I very gradually increased the throttle a tiny bit at a time. It sped up slightly each time, sputtering and surging the whole time until I nudged it ever so slightly more and it is like I shut off the ignition switch. Just stops dead.

I think this makes the 3rd or 4th small engine with a non adjustable carb that I could not get working. I'm wishing I could just put an older model carb on the darn thing. I just went through all of this same crap with my brother-in-law's Craftsman pressure washer a couple of months ago. Finally bought a carb and it was working when I left. I don't know how many pennies the mfg saves by not installing the adjustments, but it is a TERRIBLE way to save them.

I'm going to jerk the carb and go through it again, but it won't matter. I've been down this road several times, and I can smell defeat like a 4 day dead horse upwind.

I'll let you know what transpires.

Thanks a lot for the attempts to help.

Mike

2024/08/28 10:46:25

mboessen

Hi, Scott:
Went through that carb again. I grabbed my bundle of old guitar strings and selected the best fits for each hole. Roughed up the guitar strings with coarse sandpaper and worked the best fit through every orifice I could find, including all of those in that "emulsion tube". I may have wallered out that one you told me about ever so slightly. Blew everything out again with compressed air and put it back together. As I suspected, absolutely no difference. Ran it for 10 minutes again. This is immensely frustrating. What the heck can be wrong with that dang carb that I can't find???? Is there some passage somewhere I'm not finding??

Misc observations: Choke on, choke off, runs the same. I can mostly block the intake with my fingers and it makes no difference. On the side of the tank it states that the engine was tested with gasoline containing "ethanol shield" whatever that is. I don't have any. I have Stabil regular and marine formula, but can't imagine it would matter for this problem.

While I'm waiting for any wisdom, I'm going to start searching the internet for a new carb. I won't order one until I hear from you. If I find one, I know it will fix the thing, because I've been down this road several times and it always does.

Again, thanks for your time. Probably have too much angst, agony and labor in this to keep working on it.

Best

Mike

2024/08/28 12:11:21

mboessen

Hi, Scott:
I find carbs on the internet for $22ish plus shipping. I also find this Honda carb (link below) that popped up in the same search and looks identical. Any idea if it would work? If so, would it be any better? It is $42, but I'd gladly pop for it if it would help me avoid this trouble in the future.

Honda:

Simpson: Carb and complete tune up kit, only $22

2024/08/28 13:03:41

mboessen

Well, it didn't post the links. Is that illegal? I'll try again:

Simpson:

Honda:

2024/08/28 13:07:19

mboessen

Ok. It won't post the links. I'm just going to order the Simpson carb. It comes with a complete tune up. Unbelievable. Spark plug, ignition module, carburetor, fuel line, gaskets, on/off switch, fuel filter. Holy cow. $22? How can they do that?

If you search for "Simpson CM-61083-S carburetor, they are the first 2 results. That Simpson carb sure looks exactly like the Honda carb....

2024/08/28 13:11:24

SRTsFZ6

You pulled the long, thin emulsion tube (that's under the main jet) correct?

I'm not a fan of the aftermarket Chinese knock off carbs but yours IS a
Chonda (Chinese knock off Honda engine).

I looked but couldn't find the carb listing as you posted..
I'm sure it would be fine.

The all in one kit for $22 is likely not a genuine Simpson part. You get what you pay for and all those parts are likely not going to last... If you can find a genuine Simpson carb (if what your looking at isn't), I would look for that...

Re the Honda carb... That very likely would fit and not give you any issues-It's just going to be manufactured better and last longer...

Good luck and please post back how it goes..

.

2024/08/28 14:29:26

mboessen

Yep. I went over that emulsion tube with a fine tooth comb. I'll post back here the progress of this repair.

2024/08/28 18:11:38

mboessen

Hi, Scott Et al:

Well, I am dumbfounded. I got the new carb in there today. Had to pull the throttle shaft out and drill a small hole in the plastic travel limiter on top of the throttle shaft for the little throttle return spring, which the new carb didn't come with. Installed the spring on the new one and it works the same as it did on the old one. Other than that, it all fit perfectly.

Started on the first pull at half throttle, and runs almost exactly as terrible as the old one. The one screw adjustment it has that the other didn't, (Idle mix, I suspect) doesn't do much, but I didn't fool with it very long as I didn't have water hooked up, and it isn't going to fix the problem anyhow. It will almost idle normally. I can advance the throttle to about 1/2, where it sputters and surges constantly. Advance the throttle a bit more and it is like you turned off the switch. Drops dead on the spot.

The kit came with that little module that connects to the low oil shutdown, so I put that on there. No help. Unhooked the on/off switch completely. No help. On a lark I put the new spark plug in there. Again, no help.

Could I be looking at a bad ignition coil?

Other than that, I'm out of ideas. I'd have bet 100 bucks that carb would fix it.

Hope one of you guys has an inspiration...

Mike

2024/09/06 17:24:17

mboessen

Hi, All:

I couldn't find a Simpson branded coil advertised anywhere. I found a coil that sure looks right. Doesn't list Simpson, but does list the 208cc predator, several Honda engines and many others. 12 bucks and I needed a couple bearings that were on Amazon as well, so with combined shipping I'm getting the coil for free. I'll post here what I find. I would still appreciate any thoughts.

Mike

2024/09/06 17:40:39

SRTsFZ6

Hummm... As it seems you ruled out the carb (been thru everything) time to look at ignition.

Did you pull the spark plug, ground to the head and check for spark?

Just for S & G's, You might pull the flywheel and make sure the key isn't sheared or partially sheared.
That could allow to run crappy.

.

.

2024/09/06 19:54:27

mboessen

Hi, Scott:
I did check the spark. I mentioned that in the first post. Of course there is some kind of spark, or it wouldn't start. That said, that is only at cranking speed. I guess if I had one of those old Sun Machines, I could watch it on the screen as I advance the throttle. I've seen several various intermittent ignition coil symptoms over the years, but not one like this. I'm wondering if the spark gets hotter as the engine spins faster, and the coil shorts out at those higher voltages. I've also heard that a weak spark can blow out at higher RPMs. I think it is odd that, as I advance the throttle a little at a time, it reaches a point where it is literally like you shut off the ignition. No stuttering or sputtering. Just OFF! That has to be a significant symptom, but I don't know what it is.

Concerning the flywheel key, while I have the cover off, if it doesn't fight me too hard, I might try to pull that flywheel. That said, it's a pressure washer. Not like a lawn mower where you hit a rock or a piece of steel and stop the shaft instantly. Hard to imagine what would happen to make that flywheel slip. Also, the thing was running perfectly the first time I used it. The second time, I have these strange symptoms. I can't see what would happen to the flywheel while it was stored.
Hopefully the replacement ignition coil will be the right one and I'll learn something. I'll post what I find here.
Thanks for sticking with me, and all your helpful suggestions.

Mike

2024/09/07 08:31:54

SRTsFZ6

I just finished repairing a customers Ryobi2200 "suitcase" generator.

Checked (pulled the carb) the carb, nice and clean...

It would fire off on the first pull, then nothing. Looking at it and the limited parts
list, I was looking for a low oil cut off switch. I never found it on the machine or parts list.

That switch (you likely know) when working correctly (low oil level) will kill spark
after the first revolution or two. Changed the nasty oil and then put an in-line spark tester

Sure enough, started, sparked a touch and then no spark (VERY obvious)... An electrical issue.

Lots of wires obviously. Un-plugged a 2 wire connected right out in the open.
Cranked it up, ran /runs like a top! I tried to follow the wires, they went into the main
generator electrical box... Everything works, (auto throttle).

I suspect a low oil switch, but,, it runs with no mods, just on plug un-plugged..

.

2024/09/07 12:49:54

SRTsFZ6

This is the tester I used (I have the fancier one too-adjustable).
If you don't have one, get one their cheap and work great.

Get the machine running, even crappy but look for a steady spark..
As bad as it runs, it should show itself...

I've seen coils just flat out quit, some get hot and then you loose spark.

I've also had spark "leak" from the boot (it was worn away on the top) and
cause issues with the spark grounding out past the porcelain ...

2024/09/07 12:55:17

SRTsFZ6

Also, I'd dump ANY SUSPECT fuel and put known good fuel in there.

No additives at this point.

2024/09/07 13:02:06

mboessen

Hi, Scott:

Well, I have one of those little spark testers you sent the picture of. Darn. I've had it for at least 15 years and don't know if I ever used it. That said, I've ordered the coil. When it gets here, I'll put it in there.

Have you ever heard of DeOxit? After your experience with that Ryobi, I would have sprayed both sides of that plug with the stuff.

I'll let you know what transpires with the coil.

Best

Mike

2024/09/07 15:28:23

mboessen

Hi, Scott et al:
Well, the coil made no difference. I know what you're going to think after I tell the rest of the story, but I fixed it by throwing out a part. I can't get the site to let me upload images. I get a little box on the screen with the name of the file and a little status spinner in the upper left that never goes away. The picture is only a 150KB jpg, so it isn't too large. Can anyone help with that? I've tried dragging and dropping, selecting the file, both from the path at the bottom and from the links in the header bar. Anyhow there is a metal spacer that was between the carb and a black plastic contraption that just has a couple of cable/fuel line holders on it. It has silicone rubber molded around the inside edge of the metal, which is coming loose in several places. It is odd shaped, and will only go on one way. Sure wish I could post a picture....I think there is a chance that I didn't have it in the correct location in the stack. I can't find any pictures to show how all those parts go in there.

Anyhow, I just put the carb on there with the gaskets that came with it and threw that thing out. Runs fine now. Wowsers. Just for grins, I pulled out the old carb and looked closely at it. There are no differences between the 2 carbs on either mating surface. It looks like I might have a little hole lineup issue with that out. It was !/8" thick or thereabouts. I'll get that worked out, though.
Best
Mike

2024/09/11 12:56:41

SRTsFZ6

Re your first question about posting pic's.
go to Postimage: https://postimg.cc/files Open a free acct and upload pic's there.
Then use the "hot links: for forums and it should post:

You said there was silicone sealer on that intake manifold gasket? And a gap? Seems you found you smoking gun, major air leak causing crappy running. Might want to remove the plastic/composite intake manifold and check for warpage too...

Any BTW, most larger machines don't have adjustable carbs due to EPA crap.
Most chain saws, edgers, etc, do

Re-reading you post I know exactly what parts your talking about- Honda uses that set up often
and can a PIA to re-assemble correctly...

.

2024/09/11 15:33:36

mboessen

Hi, Scott:
The thing isn't a "gasket". It's a steel spacer, about 1/8" thick. I think it's only purpose was to make one bolt hole line up on top of the air filter assembly. I really don't believe I had air coming in around it from outside. I'm currently thinking I may have had it installed before the carburetor and maybe it belongs after the carb and before the air filter assy. But I'm not sure. Wherever it was, it was odd that my symptoms never changed from day one until today. I've never seen a carb mount where you had EIGHT layers, including the gaskets, between the cylinder head and the mounting nuts. I took that thing apart maybe 12 times, and I can't deny I might have got it wrong. Part of me wants to try it in a different place, but the thing is running fine. I finally got my 1000 gal propane tank pressure washed, a job I started 3 weeks ago. I think I'm going to leave it like it is. At this point, I have no idea what the original problem was. I never found anything wrong with anything. For sure, I now have a lot of spare parts if anything ever fails in the fuel or electrical system!
Sure do appreciate all the time you spent thinking about this and trying to help. I never saw a post from anyone else that I can remember.
Best
Mike

2024/09/11 16:29:17

TomsSmallEnginesRepairs

I like DeOxit cause it only takes 1 to 2 minutes for moisture to fully evaporate.

2024/11/12 14:17:31

- OR -

Simpson CM61083-S Pressure Washer Fuel System

Comments are closed.