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Case bearing shoulder ruined ?

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squarethumps
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2024/01/14 09:40:25 (permalink)
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Case bearing shoulder ruined ?

This engine was knocking so I thought that somehow a connecting rod or bearing was worn / loose or something.  I took the engine apart and nothing seemed obvious though.  I had read somewhere that the sump half of the case can get warped, so I bought a brand new one of those, and new connecting rods and all that.  I've rebuilt these kinds of engines in this way a number of times, mostly as a matter of course, after either the rings are worn out, or the valves start sticking.  I've always had success.  However, the knocking has me a little concerned because I don't see obviously the cause of the knock.  In any case, the question here is that, in the picture of the case, you can see the spot where the crank rides against the case has a little nick out of it ( maybe 2), but the crank itself does not seem to be marred at that spot, so the question is :   Is this nick the cause of all of this?  Can this part of the case be replaced or do I need to get a new one ?  ( If it is not clear in the picture, this is the piston side of the case. ) 
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    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 09:43:28 (permalink)
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    I tried to upload the pictures to the server and it's not working ?   I can't seem to successfully load the pictures.  :( 
     
     
    Quote  #2
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 12:40:51 (permalink)
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    Well, I guess it's a Briggs, nothing else..  HP, model, anything else?
     
    .

    Scott
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    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 12:47:49 (permalink)
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    It's a B&S
    MODEL 44P777
    TYPE 0164 B1
    CODE 100202YG 

    Sorry.  I should have posted for completeness.   I'm trying to upload the pics to photobucket and post links. 
    Quote  #4
    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 12:51:27 (permalink)
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    ok .. so apparently I'm not allowed to post links until I've been a member for at least 1 day :/
     
    post edited by squarethumps - 2024/01/14 12:53:15
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    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 17:00:40 (permalink)
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    Ok, tks... For future reference:
    https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/manufacturer/briggs-stratton/briggs-stratton-engine/400000-699999-series/44p700-to-44p799/44p777-0164-b1/cylinder-crankshaft-camshaft-air-guides-piston-rings-connecting-rod 
     
    Pic's will help but nothing in the rotating assembly should be striking the block.  
     
    Obviously, if it is, it'll make does till it clearances itself... And you don't want 
    that self clearancing metal floating about.   
     
    I'd start by checking for any play(back and forth) in the crank while in the block.  
     
    Will be curious to see your pic's...
     
    .
     

    Scott
    Quote  #6
    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/14 17:10:12 (permalink)
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    I agree with you.  That's why it's so curious.  I don't see any marks on either of the old cases.  This nick I'm describing is on the face of the wear part that rides flat against the crank.  Like .. the underside of the center of part #1 in that diagram.  Nothing else seemed odd and I did check that all the motor mounts were tight.    Tomorrow I should be able to post the links to my photobucket page. 
    Quote  #7
    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/15 10:10:57 (permalink)
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    hosting.photobucket.com/images/w673/squarethumps/crank1.jpg
     
    hosting.photobucket.com/images/w673/squarethumps/crank2.jpg
     
    hosting.photobucket.com/images/w673/squarethumps/case.jpg
     
     If you put https:// in front of each of those you can see the pictures. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by squarethumps - 2024/01/15 17:41:40
    Quote  #8
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/16 08:58:29 (permalink)
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    I could only open two pic's.
     
    Could that mark in the case be for oil to get in there, IE, does it look machined?
     
    The crank looked fine...
     
    .

    Scott
    Quote  #9
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/16 09:00:10 (permalink)
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    Also, how much does the crank go up and down(end play) when the cases are assembled?
     
    .

    Scott
    Quote  #10
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/16 09:03:54 (permalink)
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    Also,  in : 
     
    https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/manufacturer/briggs-stratton/briggs-stratton-engine/400000-699999-series/44p700-to-44p799/44p777-0164-b1/cylinder-crankshaft-camshaft-air-guides-piston-rings-connecting-rod 
     
    Part #2 and seal, are they tight(not sloppy) on the crank?

    Scott
    Quote  #11
    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/16 23:23:43 (permalink)
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    Could that mark in the case be for oil to get in there, IE, does it look machined?
    In truth I had the same thought ... that's why I'm posting the pictures .. and asking you experts :) 

    ..  it kind of looks machined ?   a little bit .. maybe ? .. . I think ?  but .. in the picture .. just a little further counter clockwise, there's another odd nick that looks even less machined.   If you can zoom in you can see some anomaly there too.  If it was just that one crescent shaped one then I would have probably talked myself into believing it was something put there purposefully to allow oil to get in there, but with that second nick .. I don't know ... I'm less convinced.  But yes, the crank looks totally fine I thought as well.   I didn't really thing to check the play in the crank prior to taking it apart.  I don't really want to put it all back together just to find out how much play is between the crank and the case.   So that's again why I'm seeking the help.   I mean .. if that part of the case is actually replaceable or repairable, then I don't really mind taking or sending it out to be repaired.  Same with the bushing and the seal, they seemed fine, and there wasn't any oil leakage from either the "rear main" or the "front main".    As stated in the above post, I did already purchase a new sump side of the case.  
     
    Not sure where to go from here..... I appreciate the responses for sure. 
     
     
    Quote  #12
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/17 08:18:42 (permalink)
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    You can re-assemble the case with only the crank of course using a gasket.
     
    Put some grease on one side of the gasket and you can re-use it. Torque to spec and 
    then pull up and down and then side to side measuring both.  
     
    Oil has to get to that end of the crank, sooo, are there any other oil ports right close to there?
    The other nick shouldn't be there, is it raised up at all, chewing away at the block side?  
     
    .

    Scott
    Quote  #13
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/17 08:24:49 (permalink)
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    Looking at the bushing/ seal side PART:
    https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/briggs-stratton/797673 
     
    There IS a hole in the bushing for oil.  
    Depending on what you find, measuring/checking, that bushing/seal is cheap enough ($15.00) and may be what you need...
     
     
    .

    Scott
    Quote  #14
    squarethumps
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/17 09:48:37 (permalink)
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    hmmm but it looks to me that the part where the face of the crank meets the face of the case ( the part that appears to be marred ) is not part of the bushing or seal ?  It does look like a replaceable part, but I think it would take some skills and a machine shop to do it.  Maybe ?  Or am I misunderstanding ?
    Quote  #15
    SRTsFZ6
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    Re: Case bearing shoulder ruined ? 2024/01/17 14:18:00 (permalink)
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    You wouldn't need a machine shop for the replacement. 
    Just some patience, perhaps a correct sized socket to fit over the bearing..
     
    .
     
     

    Scott
    Quote  #16
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