retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
I have the following two Briggs engines. 1) Model 445877 and 2) Model 407777 Both have the exact same displacement. However 1) is listed as 24HP, while 2) is listed as 20HP. Is it only a carburetor efficiency difference or is there severely different changes such as cylinder head shape difference which gives (1) 4 more hp ? What i want to see is if I cannot make changes to get the 20HP (2) to 24HP, so I can use it in the same riding mower as they are otherwise basically identical.
|
SRTsFZ6
Super Member
- Total Posts : 2359
- Scores: 80
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2018/11/18 07:20:58
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/18 07:22:45
(permalink)
|
retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/18 07:37:45
(permalink)
That 4hp makes huge difference on a zero turn. These 24HP Briggs engines are rather soft, and tend to bend valves. It used to be marketed as a 27HP until there was some class action suit, and it is is now marketed as a 24HP, so there are serious ethical issues with this particular engine to boot. At the time when mine bent valves, I replaced it with a 20HP Kohler as there were no 24HP version available at the time. The Kohler is the better engine by far, way more rugged and reliable, but the 4HP less is noticeable. I want to replace the 24HP Briggs on another Swisher zero-turn, which bent valves the exact same way, with the 20HP Briggs but want to see if I cannot at least get close to 24HP as described in my original post. The 24HP Kohler costs north of $1500, so that is not an option at the moment, so I am stuck with Briggs. I am starting to wonder if the 24HP Briggs is not really a 20HP pushed past it's limits, therefore bending valves. They were dishonest marketing it as a 27HP, so why would they be honest about it being a true 24HP either, especially regarding strength of materials. Why Briggs issued such unreliable engines I dont know, probably an attempt to outpace the competition at the cost of reliability, but they are horribly soft engines not worth the money. I will look through what you sent thanks.
post edited by retnev - 2025/05/18 07:46:25
|
SRTsFZ6
Super Member
- Total Posts : 2359
- Scores: 80
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2018/11/18 07:20:58
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/18 13:57:03
(permalink)
I own a Toro (2005) Zero turn with an 18 HP Briggs (42"). I got it for free as the engine was locked up. It did drop the exhaust seat and then destroyed the exhaust valve as it (valve) didn't close fully (known to happen when over heated). I replaced the head and piston with new, runs like a top (5 years ago). With that said, when I bought the head (brand new, ScamAzon), it came with 3 different inside diameter head gaskets (IE different bore sizes) I looked at (for S & G's) a new Toro with the single cylinder Briggs. That same updated machine (still 42") now has a 15 HP Briggs on it. 3 HP less than my current one. I don't care for Kohlers and definitly prefer Briggs, but that's just my experience..
post edited by SRTsFZ6 - 2025/05/18 14:02:10
|
retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/19 13:44:49
(permalink)
The broken rod.... , thats just a modern OHV Briggs. Nothing like the older engines for reliability. I have several Briggs and Kohler of the same/similar HP. Kohlers never gave me any problems, except for trivial things like fuel solenoid valves etc (after standing for a while). The problem is with the deposits left by the 10% ethanol in the fuel, which gunks up your carb if it stands for more than 2 months. By my experience owning both of the OHV Briggs and Kohlers, the Kohlers are rugged and reliable for this type of small engine. In the 18HP up, I wont buy any Briggs period. It breaks or bends rods even at light use. One bent a valve while I was just riding across the lawn with the mower deck disengaged 1 minute after startup. The old cast iron block Briggs are gold though. Irreplaceable. Anyway, that was not what my question was about, so I leave it there.
post edited by retnev - 2025/05/22 22:15:23
|
SRTsFZ6
Super Member
- Total Posts : 2359
- Scores: 80
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2018/11/18 07:20:58
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/20 07:58:53
(permalink)
We're you able to find any differences in the 2 Briggs you have, using the links above? .
|
retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/20 10:18:32
(permalink)
Its going to take a bit of time to figure that one out, but I am busy with it. More importantly I need to check if these two engines are in fact exactly the same and the 24hp version is just a souped up version which will be more prone to breakdown as a result. If that is the case then I will leave the 20HP just as it is as it will be reliable. But if the 20HP is again a souped up version of an 18hp e.g. then it will really become unreliable at 24HP (understood that such a conversion wont be possible to boot)
|
SRTsFZ6
Super Member
- Total Posts : 2359
- Scores: 80
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2018/11/18 07:20:58
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/20 12:37:22
(permalink)
Hope it works out for ya, plz post back how it goes... .
|
retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/05/22 22:14:10
(permalink)
|
retnev
Starting Member
- Total Posts : 6
- Scores: 0
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2025/05/17 17:28:54
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/07/14 13:22:06
(permalink)
Another Briggs 26HP died a few days ago. I had too many of them fail. The Kohlers (24HP) that replaced the Briggs 26HP works day in day out without trouble. I am giving up on these modern Briggs engines. It definitely seems like a weak design. So I doubt I am going to try to use the 20HP Briggs I mentioned I have earlier. Useless to fiddle with a bad design. All my old <16HP Briggs engines work like a charm, but for these larger modern engines in >20HP range I will be changing to Kohler, why because they dont fail randomly due to a bad design.
|
SRTsFZ6
Super Member
- Total Posts : 2359
- Scores: 80
- Reward points: 0
- Joined: 2018/11/18 07:20:58
- Status: offline
Re: Two Briggs engines same displacement, physical size, different HP.
2025/07/15 06:57:58
(permalink)
I believe the new ones are China built.... I wouldn't have one.... My 20 year old 18 HP (made in the US) runs great (after repairing the dropped exhaust valve seat-previous owner) . . .
|