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Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem

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Honda HRR2168vka
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2018/04/12 21:26:07 (permalink)
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Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem

Hi..first time poster and almost at the end of my patience.

Ive been having an Fuel in the oil and flooding problem ever since my Step father in law gave me this mower. 
 
Symtoms:  Starts up right away after I open the Pet Cock (fuel shut off)....I run the mower till the bag is full.  I stop the mower to empty the bag.  When I get back to start it...it's flooded and back fires.  I have to proactively shutoff the Pet Cock during mowing to drain as much fuel out of the carb as possible so by the time I stop it to dump the bag...it wont flood when I try and restart it.  If I leave the Pet cock open the whole time it floods and I have to shut it off and pull like 10 times before it finally gets going again.  The mower runs fine if I just keep adjusting the Pet Cock on the fly and shut if off a couple of minutes before a bag change.  I am running fully synthetic oil in it...but read that as long as you have the right weight it wont allow fuel to bypass the cylinder to the oil.  
 
I think i've finally tracked the problem maybe to a bad float (maybe) or needle.  The problem on this model is there is no metal float switch adjustment as the float and needle holder are completely plastic.  Also the Seat for the needle is build into the carb.  
 
How can you tell if you need to replace your float switch needle?  Is there a way to test it?  I used an air compressor to see if it would stop the air (at very low pressure) and it did.  But I can't tell if the float is creating enough pressure on the needle to seal off the carb when it's full (or at the correct level).  If the carb gets "full' will that effect a running mower....it seems to run just fine until I stop running it!?  
 
I also found that my Pet Cock valve is leaking as it leaks one drop every 11 seconds or so when closed.  Could this be part of the problem?  I'm going to replace that anyway but was wondering if I should try and order a new needle and float....it seems they are 'popluar' items....and are not cheap.  By popular I mean in high demand because they probably need replacement all the time.  
 
Finally I've run gas with ethanol in it before..but finally switched to pure Gas lately.....I've wondering if that has been a problem as well...but I clean my carb a lot so that never has seemed to be a problem.  
 
Thanks for any help!
 
Beau
 

16 Replies Related Threads

    AVB
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/12 21:45:43 (permalink)
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    Honda HRR2168vka
     I am running fully synthetic oil in it...but read that as long as you have the right weight it wont allow fuel to bypass the cylinder to the oil.

    First that is a bunch bologna Gasoline will thin the oil to point where it not effective at all. Does not matter if it is synthetic or not.
     
    When I look up this mower the carburetors are just as cheap as the needle itself so just install a new carburetor.
     
     
    MdStamen
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/21 10:05:00 (permalink)
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    I agree with AVB the carburetor is a cheaper repair. They go  for less than 15 all day.
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/26 13:34:30 (permalink)
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    New Carb....new fuel pet cock.....same issue.  Doesn't flood easy....but after running it....I let it sit....then pull to start up.  It starts 95% with a backfire (something I forgot to mention before).....but after I'm done there is still smell of gas on the dip stick.  I guess I don't know the inter workings of the cylinder tube....but I'm assuming my piston seal is broken/needs replaced??  I don't know....any more pointers would be great.
     
     
    I granted I've only run it for about 10 mins after the new carb and petcock install.....with three shut downs....wait...and start up (with backfire each time)......but still...there is a strong smell of gas on the dip stick.  When i changed the oil (prior to this test run).....it wasn't too gassy...but there was definitely gas in it.....and the oil was pretty new (changed it two mowing ago to get rid of last seasons gassy oil).  
     
    Can I finally say that this isn't a carb issue?  Or can I adjust the carb somehow to lean our the mixture....but an over rich fuel air mixture shouldn't cause backfiring and gas in the crank.  Next stop will be a small engine repair shop unless I can get any more Internet knowledge.   
     
     
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/26 15:20:51 (permalink)
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    Of course there is no blue smoke ....so oil isn't getting past the Piston rings.....so maybe its not that either?    Bottom line is too much fuel is getting to the cylinder.......which still points to a carb problem.  ugh!  I don't know.  probably just take it in at this point.  
     
    Is there any fine tuning i could be doing to the carb be sides messing with the idle screw?  Maybe these carbs just suck....can I go get an after market carb?
     
    Mikel1
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/26 18:45:10 (permalink)
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    Interesting, for fuel to be in crankcase it has to be flooding. Is fuel tank clean of debris?

    Like avb doesn't matter if it is synthetic oil or dino oil. A cylinder full of gas will make its way to the crankcase.
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/27 13:16:15 (permalink)
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    yeah I agree.....but a brand new Carb?  I'm pretty sure my tanks/lines are clean....what would that have to do with it?  Debris blocking the needle from functioning properly?
     
    Mikel1
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/27 21:10:38 (permalink)
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    That is correct, debris would keep inlet needle from fully seating. I would at least check it.
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 12:21:52 (permalink)
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    Looks clean (hard to see exactly).....carb bowl is clean too.  Still you would think it would work properly to a point that the needle got stuck open?  Which it consistently has had the same problem.  This carb sucks because the float and needle holder are all plastic....so you can't really "adjust" the holder to apply more pressure to the needle and seat.  Seems a like a waste which such a good engine....idk.  This might be a Small Engine shop fix.....

      
    Mikel1
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 12:43:59 (permalink)
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    If you open the fuel petcock when you haven't been running mower, does it still flood?
    MdStamen
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 16:47:03 (permalink)
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    A badly adjusted carburetor can send too much gas into the carburetor, and the overflow will eventually wash down the cylinder walls and into your oil pan. Since you do not have any adjustments the problem is the flooding into the engine. This is why you have gas in the oil.
    This also tends to foul the  plug.Thus, one way to check for this problem is to pull  the spark plug and look at it.
    The tank and the lines need to be thoroughly cleaned. To remove the gas tank you have 3 10mm nuts. This will remove the starter and the gas tank. Unhook the fuel line. I do not care but wash that guy out. Take it to the sink use water, but CLEAN it out. Change the gas lines also.
    I have never seen the material for the Hondas break down, but change them anyway.
    You can bench test a carburetor bu hooking up a fuel line and turn it upside down and try to blow some air from your mouth. It should not go through. Then put it in the regular position and it should allow air to pass.
    AVB
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 17:17:23 (permalink)
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    Actually to bench test requires a way to pressurize with a gauge to see if it is leaking. Normally gravity fed system should hold 5 psi for very long periods on the order of several hours or more. The problem with Honda carbs they simply do not always hold this pressure which is why while in storage they use a shut off valve.
     
    You simply can't tell if the carburetor needle and seat have a slow leakage using just your lungs; no accurate way to measure the pressure or its loss doing it this way. I have seen carbs to pass a quick test but fail the long term test.
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 19:21:09 (permalink)
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    Haven't tried just opening the petcock when not running......that would isolate the float switch as the problem i guess. 
     
    It's probably time for a fuel line change and tank cleaning anyway.......should I order the fuel lines online or will a hardware/automotive place have that type of fuel line?
     
    I did the air test on my last carb and it past.  Used an air compressor on very low PSI (10 or less I can't remember) and it blocked the air....idk?  
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2018/04/28 22:10:54 (permalink)
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    Well that wasn't expected.  Turned the fuel on and left for an hour.  Came back and no strong fuel smell....no leaking.  Fired it up with one pull. Figured it would happen after warm up like always......ran for 5 mins....then killed it with the fuel still turned on.  Waited 1-2 mins then fired it up with one pull (backfire)........ran another min or 2 then repeated the same experiment.  Same result...with a back fire.  
     
    After shutting it down....there is still a strong smell of Gas in the oil.... but I still haven't changed it since the first two runs after the carb swap.  So next ill change the oil again and see if i get gass in the oil again.   
    Joemed01
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2020/04/09 17:58:44 (permalink)
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    Any luck on this repair? I have the same issue and am waiting to get a new carburetor. Thanks.
    Honda HRR2168vka
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2020/04/10 00:52:03 (permalink)
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    Joemed01
    Any luck on this repair? I have the same issue and am waiting to get a new carburetor. Thanks.


    No not really.  The mower works....it's just annoying that I have to shut off the fuel before shutting it down.  I've got a mulch kit on with the plug in the back so I don't have to stop every 5 mins and dump a full bag.  I've tried to call a couple of small engines shops in the area...but no body seems to want to do more than a carb swap.  

    What are your symptoms?  Flooding?  Oil in Fuel?  Backfire?  
    Joemed01
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    Re: Honda HRR2168VKA Fuel in Oil/Flooding problem 2020/04/10 06:51:15 (permalink)
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    No real backfire. Just after running for a while it won’t restart due to what appears to be flooding. When I start it initially it does seem to go full throttle, ease back a little, but still sit at a higher RPM than I would expect. A neighbor of mine says it’s the float switch so I’m gonna replace the whole carburetor since it’s only $17 straight from Honda. I have a second mower just like it and when I start it there is a distinct difference in the sound. I’m gonna let my neighbor get a crack at it and see what other troubleshooting he can do before the replacement carburetor gets in. I’ll keep you posted.
    post edited by Joemed01 - 2020/04/10 06:52:18
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