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Engine Upgrade

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DCP123
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2019/10/19 00:31:45 (permalink)
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Engine Upgrade

I have a Tomahawk Pro Chipper with a "12hp" Tecumseh engine that's running slow and giving me a little other trouble.  Rather than doing the sensible thing and take the time to figure out why it's running poorly, I was thinking about using an available "16hp" Brand-X (Duramax) engine to replace the existing engine.  Part of the appeal is getting a bit more power, but the chipper came in two versions 10hp and 12hp and the chassis probably wasn't built to handle much more power and I'm worried about damaging it, so I don't want to give it TOO much more power, at least not at first.
 
If I put the more powerful engine in, I could just about figure out how to lower the hp by lowering the RPM, but that's not really what I want.  Is there a good way to maintain the RPM but limit the torque to see how the thing runs with just a bit more power, while minimizing the risk of bending a tool that I kind of like?  Eventually, I'd probably work my way back up to full power if it didn't seem like the machine was overstressed, but I'd like to start gently and, frankly, how to do this is well beyond my small engine wisdom.
 
Any advice on whether the upgrade is dumb, the idea of de-rating the larger engine is dumb or unnecessary, or if my idea makes some sense of how to go about limiting the torque?
 
Thanks in advance for any input or gentle mockery.

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    AVB
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    Re: Engine Upgrade 2019/10/20 13:10:33 (permalink)
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    I would stick closer to the current engine size. Something like the Harbor Freight 60349 13 hp [420cc] Predator engine. Either way you need what size and length crankshaft PTO size you currently have and try to match the replacement engine to that.
     
    Of course HP and torque are different rating and must be to each other. Small engine HP is usually rated at 3600 rpms but torque is rated at a much lower rpm. For the 60349 engine is 13 hp max at 3600 rpm and has a maximum torque rating of 19.8 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. Otherwords the best working torque is produce @ 2500 rpms so if you running @ this rpm the HF engine is only producing 9.425 hp. I couldn't find the specs of the engine you mention so I not to compare the two.
     
    Also being a Tecumseh is built before the HP label requirements. Other words if the engine was manufactured before October 2013 it only had to produce 85% of labelled HP as today's engine must produce 95% of the labelled HP rating. So even installing a new 12 hp it is likely to produce more HP than the engine it is replacing.
    Roy
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    Re: Engine Upgrade 2019/10/20 14:30:00 (permalink)
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    You will likely run into fit up problems with the 16 hp, the crankshaft will probably be too high to line up with the opening in the chipper housing. If it does fit, rather than trying to limit horse power be cautious about trying to feed too much at a time. The impeller will bend or break before the engine stalls.
    DCP123
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    Re: Engine Upgrade 2019/10/25 15:28:18 (permalink)
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    AVB
    I would stick closer to the current engine size. Something like the Harbor Freight 60349 13 hp [420cc] Predator engine. Either way you need what size and length crankshaft PTO size you currently have and try to match the replacement engine to that.
     
    Of course HP and torque are different rating and must be to each other. Small engine HP is usually rated at 3600 rpms but torque is rated at a much lower rpm. For the 60349 engine is 13 hp max at 3600 rpm and has a maximum torque rating of 19.8 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. Otherwords the best working torque is produce @ 2500 rpms so if you running @ this rpm the HF engine is only producing 9.425 hp. I couldn't find the specs of the engine you mention so I not to compare the two.
     
    Also being a Tecumseh is built before the HP label requirements. Other words if the engine was manufactured before October 2013 it only had to produce 85% of labelled HP as today's engine must produce 95% of the labelled HP rating. So even installing a new 12 hp it is likely to produce more HP than the engine it is replacing.


    Thanks for the good advice. I was aware of the change to HP ratings, but hasn't really considered that even a 12HP engine using current rating standards would be significantly more powerful than the"12HP" engine that's on there now.

    I think the cranksheft length and position would work, but don't remember if the diameter is the same, so I might need to replace the pully.

    Maybe I should just invest the effort in getting the engine I have on the chipper now to run smoothly and see if I'm satisfied with how the chipper works, rather than rushing to put a different engine on it.

    Right now it doesn't increase throttle well to maintain RPM under load. I can maintain RPM by manually moving the throttle linkage, so I don't think I'm getting full power out of the engine. I guess I need to adjust the governor. I've never done that, but it doesn't look terribly hard.
    DCP123
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    Re: Engine Upgrade 2019/10/25 15:36:05 (permalink)
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    Roy
    You will likely run into fit up problems with the 16 hp, the crankshaft will probably be too high to line up with the opening in the chipper housing. If it does fit, rather than trying to limit horse power be cautious about trying to feed too much at a time. The impeller will bend or break before the engine stalls.


    Thanks for the advice. I think the crankshaft would line up, but I need to confirm that. I might also need a different size pully as I think the shaft diameters may be different.

    I know myself to well to trust me not to feed the largest branches that will fit in the chute and there's no easy way to control the feed rate on this small chipper.

    I think I need to get the engine I have working as well as I can and, only if I'm still having trouble with it bogging down, figure out which slightly larger engine will fit and increase power without being too likely to bend the machine. Actually, since it's belt-driven, the belt may protect the drum and it's bearings and axle by snapping under too much power.

    Thanks for your input.
    DCP123
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    Re: Engine Upgrade 2019/10/25 15:46:56 (permalink)
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    Actually, the 14HP Predator engine you mention is probably just as powerful as the Duromax 16HP one. They're both 420 cc and, barring something like a supercharger, I suspect that the 420 cc Predator draws in just as much air at 3600 RPM as the Duromax. The Duromax probably derives its larger rating drom the popular engineering tactic knnown a "lying."

    Duromax also sells a 440cc engine that they advertise as "18HP.". It would be fun to test these things and see what they can really manage.
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